Switching sides and crossing borders: the power of mobility with Isadora Talamo and Juan Pablo Puerto Reyes
Anna Weiss
(00:03)
Everyone who’s been part of Kennedys, whether you’re with us now or have moved on, has helped shape the firm into what it is today. Whether your time here was brief or spanned many years, you remain an important part of our story. I’m Anna Weiss, Global Relationship Development Director at Kennedys, and this is the Kennedys Alumni Network podcast. Today, we’re talking about careers that don’t fit neatly into one box or one country, because in a global firm, your path might take you from Bogota to Madrid, Brazil to London and beyond, or from private practice to in-house and across borders.
Today, I’m joined by Juan Pablo Puerto Reyes, an alumnus from our Latin American corporate practice and now General Counsel at Grupo Ingenium Tecnología in Madrid, and alumna Isadora Talamo, formerly based in our London office and now Product Counsel at Sompo in Barcelona. Two Kennedys alumni who built truly fascinating careers overseas to explore what you gain and what you have to overcome when you move across borders and between sectors and how those experiences then shape the kind of lawyer and leader that you become.
So welcome everyone to the podcast. I’d like to start with your journeys, where it all began and what brought you to where you are now. So Isa, if I may start with you, let’s learn a little bit about how you arrived at Kennedys and then where your journey took you.
Isadora Talamo
(01:43)
Thank you, Anna. Thank you for having me. I’m from Brazil. I’m a qualified lawyer in Brazil. And I started working in the insurance market when I was at uni in Brazil. After more or less three years, I was at Aon in Brazil and Aon offered me a position in London. I moved to London in 2010 as a reinsurance broker. After a couple of years, I was missing the legal world and I decided to take the long path and went to uni in London to become a qualified solicitor in England and Wales. In 2016, I moved to Kennedys in London, Israel, and I stayed there for almost five years. Though in New York and also in Kennedys, my focus was Latin America. After almost five years at Kennedys, I moved to an in-house position in the London market. And after a year, I moved to an in-house position in Barcelona. So now I’m based in Barcelona and I’m product developer as you mentioned.
Anna
(02:48)
Yeah, it’s been a really interesting career path. And I remember when you first joined Kennedys and all the hard work you put into qualifying as an English qualified lawyer. And I think that multi-jurisdictional experience that you have between Brazil and London really helped you in the work that you did with us. And it was always a pleasure working with you, Isa, on the cases we had across border. And likewise, Juan, working with you as well on some of the initiatives we had when we were working together in Latin America. Perhaps you can also give us your career history, how you arrived at the firm and then what you’ve now gone on to do.
Juan Pablo Puerto Reyes
(03:25)
Yes. Hello. And it’s a pleasure to be here. And thank you very much for inviting me. When I was finishing uni, I decided I wanted the law firm work. I think it was an interesting place to work. then I think further on, we’ll talk about the difference between the different type of work you do when you’re working in-house and where you’re working at a law firm. But I decided I think it’s more exciting. And I think it could be more interesting applying to a law firm and I decided to work on law firms and the commercial practice. And then by chance, this commercial practice ended up being M&A practice. And I had the opportunity of working in some law firms in Colombia, which I’m really grateful with, if they’re listening. And I decided like this M&A practice for me was really interesting because it just like gave me like this idea of perhaps like an international practice. So, so there are certain areas I believe that are international practices. So M&A for me is one of those standardized global terms cross border your transactions as well. So I thought this is going to be, this is path that I wanted to go down or a road I want to go down. And so I started working at law firms. I started doing M&A practice and then I decided I wanted to have a try at the public sector. So I went working to the public sector, kind of like ticking the boxes of places to work.
Anna
(04:58)
Brilliant. So I think it definitely, brings up quite a few points. mean, I think certainly for all of us who’ve had that time in a law firm, gives you a good foundation and a good awareness of what the opportunities are in different areas of the law. And what’s interesting about your two career paths is, Juan, you focus then more on the corporate sort of in the M&A path, which, know, Kennedys traditionally did not do so much of that type of work. think we’re known more widely for our insurance practice, which probably is what attracted Isa to Kennedys. But then now Isa is also doing not so much on the claims and the dispute side, but more on the corporate and commercial side, but within an insurer. So it has been an interesting path, I think, for both of you in terms of what you’ve gathered and gained from being part of a global law firm and then moved on.
Can I ask you a question about just how was it to transition from a personal level? Like what took you to London, Isa? What took you to Madrid, Juan? And I know that you spent time in the Bogota office, then the Madrid office. So we can explore a little bit about the reason for your moves to those different countries. And then also how did it feel to settle in those different countries? Was it easy or was it challenging from a personal perspective? So Isa, do you want to go first?
Isadora
(06:20)
Yes, sure. Well, I think the good thing on the insurance market is how international is this market. Then being in London is like a great experience, you know, is the hub for the insurance market, but it’s very different from Brazil, I would say. Like, at first, like it’s a face-to-face market, you know, you need to discuss face-to-face with all underwriters. When you are a broker, you need to visit them. they appreciate that. I left London in 2022 during the pandemic, but I believe it’s still like that, the face-to-face. And of course, like the British/English was a challenge. But I think, although it’s a challenge, like cultural things, like many things are different from Brazil, but I was quite open to face all of this challenge and to improve my career. So definitely like I was professionally shaped by the London market, which was great. At the same time that being a lawyer is not an easy profession to become international because you have like different legal systems, different frameworks, different regulations. So I think the challenge was to understand all this. I was basing the Latin American team for Aon and then for Kennedys. It is not like that everything is the same, so every single country is different. So we need to understand, we need to learn with our colleagues locally and also like with our clients, we need to learn how to deal with each, like which country and each regulation. So this was very challenging, but it very important. as who I mentioned, I always thinking about to move abroad, to have an international career, but then suddenly I end up in the insurance market was not planning, but you know, was a great opportunity and being London, moved to London was great because it’s a great hub. And then you can meet people from all over the world.
Anna
(08:28)
So diverse, there’s so many international opportunities. And we should talk as well about Spain, but before we do that, I know, Juan, you also spent a little bit of time in London in your career path as well. Maybe you want to share a little bit about that and then what took you from Bogota to Madrid?
Juan
(08:48)
Yeah, sure. Well, I ended up in London because I decided I wanted to do a master’s degree. And this was like on 2010. And in 2010, you have like all the fallback of the 2008 financial crisis. then I thought that like that’s like a really interesting subject to analyze from a legal perspective. Personally, my dad worked on finance, so he was like, like knowledgeable about those issues. And so I was curious about this is like an interesting topic to see on the legal side. So basically, my rational was if you’re going to study finance law, there are two places you can study finance law, the financial hubs of the world. You can go to the US, to New York, or you can go to London and study it. So I decided I wanted to apply to do a master’s degree in London. And for me, it was like this life changing experience because this is, it’s not an experience that, well, helps you like academically and everything, but also like in the way you see life, the way you start getting in touch with different people, different cultures. London is an amazing city that has an option for everything and for everyone. And then I came back to Columbia and started like the corporate practice in law firms. So then I go into the public sector. finish their really, really interesting job and really grateful for the opportunity. And then I, I entered Kennedys and Kennedys first thing I received is like this global perspective. since moment one, I was in Bogota office and for the corporate and commercial practice, I, you can say that I was not only thinking about Columbia, but I was thinking about the region, about LATAM. So that was like really interesting, really interesting way of understanding how a firm works because it was something that I haven’t been aware of, to be honest. As long as you grow in the law firm world, start like, like different doors starts to open and you see like different chapters and different, different things in there. And then I ended up in Spain and it might sound cheesy, like following the heart because my wife got transferred to Madrid. Yeah. Fast forward and get married and, and then, and then I ended up here in Madrid and at the Kennedys office. Same way as thinking of LATAM, thinking of expanding. that’s for me, for me, Kennedys are, they have been the stepping stones in my professional career for this global practice. So, so this was like really interesting and it’s funny how, you start thinking about the past and how every thought like connect, like you start understanding things or things, things differently. So that’s how I ended up here in Madrid, like with a personal decision, a really personal intimate decision of coming to live with my wife here to Madrid and then trying to work my professional world, the life around it, around that decision.
Anna
(11:49)
Congratulations too, because this is something that is important and we don’t always talk about it at work, but prioritizing your own personal journey and your family life has got to be the heart of a lot of the decisions we make. And so I loved that you had the ability to take your career to Madrid and to do that. And from there, you actually, I remember you set up the LATAM desk out of the Madrid office, which was great because obviously there’s a lot of connectivity between Spain and Latin America and the opportunities were great, which also helped you get closer to your now employer, I believe. And that’s sort of why you transitioned in-house. So let’s take a moment then to talk about, you know, adapting to your new rules in-house, what led to the change and how it felt in the early days when you first sort of jumped from being a time recording fee earner, to the one where you make the decisions and you know the buck stops with you. So who wants to take that one first?
Isa
(12:49)
I can start, so yeah. Well, I can start say that being a private practice like Kennedys was extremely important to my career. You know, is where I had the opportunity to work on very complex matters and in a law firm you have to deep dive into the, in the case, you know, you need to understand the whole case. You need to do a lot of search about the case and, and everything that could impact this case. So this was great. It’s not like in the private, in the in-house position, know, the in-house position, you need to manage a lot of things that are happening at the same time. You need to manage regulatory issues. You need to manage, maybe support the claims department and you need to support the underwriters when they need to, you know, to have a contract, a different clause. And you need to support the company, what the company is planning to the future. So you need to focus on the budget, you need to focus on what the company wants for the future and review contracts, having in mind what is the expectations of the company. So it’s very different, but I would say that the in-house position, the both in-house position that I had after Kennedys, it was possible to develop a good job because I had candidates before, so I was shaped by candidates, like how to analyze a case, how to deal with a complex matter, how to treat the clients, how to communicate difficult situations to a client. this was great, but it’s different. The in-house, you need to manage many things at the same time, and also take into consideration the internal policies of the company. So I think it’s very different in that sense.
Anna
(14:38)
Totally. It’s a big juggle, isn’t it, in terms of, I remember when I was in house, I mean, you’re managing so many different things at once. It’ll be new things coming through the door that you don’t expect, that there’s no template for, and no one’s looked at it before. And instead of turning to your next door neighbour in the next office to say, how do we do this? You will buy yourself a lot of the time.
Isadora
(15:01)
And also like my background was mailing financial lines, as you know, and in an in-house position, you need to expand that. need to, you know, we cannot be focusing one single line of business, at least in my experience. So you need to expand that and try to understand all the line of business and how things work. it’s more, yeah, so you have to manage it.
Anna
(15:24)
It is. It’s more holistic, isn’t it? I think that you’re known to be the lawyer for the company or the insurer, whomever your employer is. And for those who are not lawyers, they assume, I think, that lawyers know everything, which is wonderful, but not true. And we’ll touch on that a little bit later about some of the limitations of practicing law in these roles and overseas. Before we do that, Juan, would you share with us a little bit about your transition from so Kennedys Madrid, the LATAM desk, and then into your now GC role and how it was in the early days.
Juan
(16:00)
Yes. I think the first thing that I learned having this change, being on the other side that I haven’t been, is basically it reinforced my view about the legal profession, to be honest. And I think the legal profession, and this might sound obvious, it’s a services industry. And as a services industry, you are to serve, to serve your clients being internal clients or external clients. That is how you need to adapt and to find the best way to help your clients. You are providing a services. But I think the main line here is you start providing services like in a different way. And I think a good way to being like a working and in-house is to identify which matters are going to the law firms and which matters can be served internally by the internal legal teams. But what I was saying about the services industry is that it’s really interesting because when you are in the general counsel, you start to see how you could improve your work in the law firm and when you’re in the law firm, it’s really important to know what the company wants and what the company is looking for. So it’s just like this change of mentality, which is really interesting. It’s really interesting because I don’t know if I’m going to go back to law firm. That’s time will tell. Who knows? But what I can tell you right now is if I go back to a law firm, my experience being a general counsel, it’s going to help a lot regarding the type of answers my client would like for me to give him. And the same thing, me as a general counsel, I know what are the type of answers I have to provide internally to the company because I know due to the experience and the way I practice law from a law firm, from the law firm perspective. So I think it’s been like really interesting, like seeing the other way, around being the client is, it was a position that I’ve never been before. So that’s on the service side, but at the same time, and I think that’s the most valuable input my practice in law firm has helped my general counsel practices, you’re servicing an internal client. So have the same service standards you will have in a law firm for your external clients, have it for your internal clients.
Anna
(18:29)
Yeah, it brings a very different perspective to our work, I think. And I have had the fortunate experience of going from private practice to an in-house role. And I was in-house for about four or five years. And what I, the experience that I learned in-house was absolutely fundamental to what I then took back when I came back to private practice. Because as you said, you understand more from the true experience how it is to receive the legal advice, like how things could have been delivered differently to make your life as the in house counsel easier to then translate that for your stakeholders or the way that communications are handled, the speed at which we do things and understanding the pressures of being in-house I think is so useful for us then when we do if we do